Modern Drummer 2005 Readers' Poll Awards

Why is it so hard to understand. Vinnie himself says he doesn't care about clave. Vinnie does not play latin. That my friends is a fact. Could he if he learned about clave, and all the different rhythms of the world involved. SURE...But, he doesn't. And he does not play be bop. If you don't know what be bop is, then you shouldn't respond to this. Be bops is language that Vinnie does not speak. He talks about it himself. His extent of jazz language is modern Tony Williams. That's not be bop. To me an ALL AROUND drummer should be able to play in the style of Max Roach, Ignacio Berroa, and everything else. Gadd is the only one. Cobham? He's great, but he doesn't swing. Have you heard him play in small jazz combo. It's horrible.
You don't have to be a genius to know about styles. I think these guys can play everything with authenticity:
Brian Blade, Tommy Igoe, Ben Whitman, Steve Hass, Clarence Penn, Gary Novack. That's all I can think of now, but these guys know pop.rock,funk, clave, and all the jazz languages. They may not be as sick as some others, but they are ALL AROUND.
Vinnie is not my idea of an all around drummer. I wouldn't call him to play on a count basie sound a like, or a Tito Puente track. I have heard the above names do that.

Oh and pocket player, if you take a moment to read what you posted, you'd see that you posted all in all 3 styles of drumming. Backbeat(rock/pop), fusion backbeat, and contemporary jazz. That's all around? You're missing about 10 others. Sure Vince plays with the best, and a vast variety, but still. That's not what all around means to or any of the producers who hire all around drummers. In my opinion, he doesn't aluthentically play a few essential styles in order to be called all around. And the others in that category other than Gadd, aren't all around whats so ever. Steve Smith's latin is horrible.

I tend to agree.
VinCola's very close, but there are other drummers who are the epitomy of all around. Most of them aren't in M.D. All of the players that won are players featured in MD. Yet another sad fact.
Vin Cola doesn't get deep into some styles. Some he doesn't play at all.
I can't believe you mentioned Ben Whittman. He's amazing, and one of todays great drummers. Plays EVERYTHING. It's funny how drummers that aren't on the clinic scene rarely get mentioned. Meanwhile, they're too busy making music which is why they don't do clinics.

Just because someone is on a ton of albums in a wide variety of styles doesn't mean they are truly all around.
Shawn Pelton is on 5 times the amount of recordings that Vinnie is on. Many of them are the same artists. Everything from fusion to jazz and tons of pop. But he's the furthest thing from all around. The amount of recordings is irrelevent. We're talking styles here. Who can really play EVERYTHING? authentically. That's what all around is. Most of the great aren't all around. A handful. Paraflam mentioned some great ones. Jeff Watts is extremely all around, in my opinion.

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Originally posted by Vdrummer:
Yeah, but does anyone really care?

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<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yes...endorsers care! Like the Golden Globes and Academy Award nominees in film, as soon as one gets nominated, it is ALL over the movie pages. Same with drummers. Watch how a title won from MD shows up on the next product of that particular drummer.

Vinnie not an ALL-around drummer? WHAT? Seriously, WHAT? There is NO better choice in the history of drumming than Vinnie. Who?I mean WHO has recorded more diverse music than VC? WHO?

From Zappa to Joni Mitchell to Judy Collins to Poco to Bill Meyers to Barry Manilow to Wang Chung to Chick Corea to Robbin Ford to Alan Holdsworth to SheDaisy to Bette Midler to Sting to Brandon Fields to Air Supply to Dan Fogelberg to Randy Waldman to ?

WHO?

I agree w rob, sdk, & para on this one.

However, it does'nt make VC any less the player that he is [there's the condition; & you guys already made that anyway ;c)].

How about, Most Ridiculous, Absurd, Closest to Burning Your Face Off Alien Rhythms Drummer? Now, that'd be VC awa a handful of others [including Virg.]

That was said in half-jest. Please don't come on beat the dead horse [as i just did] by asking "what does this have to do w music?!"... ;cp The topic itself has little to do with that actual fact as it is... ;c)

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ April 06, 2005 03:12 PM: Message edited by: got_a_matchgrip? ]</font>

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Originally posted by Henry II:
[For me, Billy Cobham is THE All Around drummer for the ages. No one is more versatile than Billy. JMHO. And legend has it that he's just as good a sight reader as Vinnie.

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<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I Respect your oppinion Henry, but i must disagree. I have a recording with a Guitarist called Dean Brown, and billy's doing two tracks out of 14. Rest of the cats are: Michael Bland, JuJu House, etc. I gotta say that those tunes Cobham plays on are pretty unsettled groovewise. Especially in a slow going strong backbeated tune, were you clearly notice an infrigment on his Bassdrum, it's very insecure.

But on the other tune, his improvisations is sick. He's a clearly great Jazz/Fusion drummer, i don't know if you can call him an all around drummer.

lemme find that Album, think i left it at my father some time ago.

Well...this is turning out to be the "What does All-Around" really mean thread.

Does an enormous amount of recordings make one All-Around? Of couse not. Porcaro did a zillion sessions and he is not...All-Around.

According to some of the above definitions, there are but a handful of All-Around drummers alive today. That said, if you account for all the All-Around MD drummers over the past 25 years, who then is All-Around? Carl Palmer?

Vinnie, IMO, on record, is the most diverse drummer on the planet. I can be schooled here...not jumping ON the shark because of this forum, but do you have to play the nuances of all Latin grooves or Reggae to be an All-Around drummer? What specific categories comprise the All-Around drummer? Is the All-Around drummer in Brazil as significant to the one playing in NYC? How does a cultural influence impact this title? Buddy doesn?t come to mind playing heavy metal?but in his prime there was no HM. There was no culture for the music type. Also, if one aspires to be an All-Around drummer, they might live in a practice room being the jack of all and master of none.

IMO I find that many of the "so called" great all around drummer's are good at 3, 4 maybe 5(that is rare) styles but are only GREAT!! and I mean REAL good at one or two. I have yet to find really any drummer that BLOW'S! me away at all styles they are performing in. And that is O.K. I just think the All-Around monicker is used to loosely. Especially by Modern Drummer. There only requirement really, is if you played in a variety of styles not whether you were TRULY!!proficient in those setting's.

Dig

You know who 1 of the guys is that I would say falls into this AAD category?
Dave Weckl.
Now that's obv not gonna please the HardCore swing & bop guys, nor the HC funk or authentic latin cats, but hr can play all & well [for a "westerner!" ;c)] I feel he is a more direct decendant of Gadd if you will [with more chops, twists, & fireworks, obv]...but he plays or can play rock, jazz, swing, BB, latin, reggae, pop, funk...he can handle many styles, altho if you stack most any player up to authenticity within EVERY style, most will fall a little short of that wide mark pertaining to every or all.
& Weck's latin - he knows all the inversions of clave, altho he doesn't always adhere to it when in fusion mode, which is much of the time. But he's always musically attentive to form & genre, whether you personally like his groove or indy style or not, because he's the very contemporary player - backbeat & click oriented. I've heard Steve Hass play fusion, latin, pop, & jazz, & he seems to have many styles down AW.

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ April 07, 2005 10:50 AM: Message edited by: got_a_matchgrip? ]</font>